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  1. #1
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    Minimap Overlays

    I'm going to bring it up now so there's more than a month to argue discuss it.

    Anyone that doesn't know what an Overlay is...

    Basically both armies have the option to "photoshop" the minimap to put colored grids over it for easier calling out

    The Basics:

    - Minimaps are client side so either side could have different ones or none at all

    - Each side would be responsible for making their own if they so chose.

    - Each side would be responsible for distributing their overlay

    - Players would be responsible for downloading and extracting the minimap (It's the same thing as extracting the battle map)


    And if someone has an old overlay laying around please post it. i can't seem to find any of mine

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  2. #2
    Registered User Allies 25 Soldat 1ere
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    I think this was discussed already back in.... #15?

    And i think people came to the conclusion that PB dislikes minimap overlays and thinks they are h4x. Which resulted to us not using them in Fh2.

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  3. #3
    Registered User WaW Default
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    I don't think that was the reason Spfft, I think with the BF2 engine, both sides had to have the exact same overlay and when it was proposed one side didn't want to do it so we didn't do it.

    Basically, I am not sure if both sides can have different overlays, but with Pepper on the team well we might be able to do something. seeing as he is some coding-god.

  4. #4
    Registered User Allies 25 Soldat 1ere
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    Oh yeah that was it indeed. I just remembered that it was Bf2 being stupid but didn't remember the details.

    Yeah, i was supposed to make a cool sig but i got lazy. So here's a picture of a dog.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Allies 27 Private
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    Don't include the minimap in the client.zip, but in it's correct folder. Then both sides can edit it as they wish without touching the client.zip file.


    The client.zip file is about 95% of the filesize of the map, and BF2 can't handle hotfixes. That was the reason.


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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ka* Paasky View Post

    The client.zip file is about 95% of the filesize of the map, and BF2 can't handle hotfixes. That was the reason.
    But it can, we've proven that you can modify most anything in the server.zip and run just fine, from the tmp.con to the gameplayer objects we modified them all this campaign server side and it's worked. We had a good 2/3rds of the server on Woodrun for example running without the hotfix because it never got posted up in the last few rounds.

    The gameplay objects, the tmp.con, the maplist.py all of these can be modified server side in hotfixes and we can all still get on the server.
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  7. #7
    World at War
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adder View Post
    But it can, we've proven that you can modify most anything in the server.zip and run just fine, from the tmp.con to the gameplayer objects we modified them all this campaign server side and it's worked. We had a good 2/3rds of the server on Woodrun for example running without the hotfix because it never got posted up in the last few rounds.

    The gameplay objects, the tmp.con, the maplist.py all of these can be modified server side in hotfixes and we can all still get on the server.
    There's still things that just won't work or cause mysterious crashes. We had some sucesses previous campaigns as well but also crashes, bf2 is picky.

  8. #8
    Registered User Allies 27 Private
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adder View Post
    But it can, we've proven that you can modify most anything in the server.zip and run just fine, from the tmp.con to the gameplayer objects we modified them all this campaign server side and it's worked. We had a good 2/3rds of the server on Woodrun for example running without the hotfix because it never got posted up in the last few rounds.

    The gameplay objects, the tmp.con, the maplist.py all of these can be modified server side in hotfixes and we can all still get on the server.
    Still replacing something in the client.zip would either require a 30mb "hotfix" or people to edit their zip files. But if we leave the inGameMap.dds outside of client.zip, it can be replaced all we want by just a simple extraction.


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  9. #9
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    Both sides can have different minimaps it's been tested. When previously discussed before it came up of people editing the client and then it would lead to people editing more and it would be considered hacking by our own admins. PB does not pick up on it and will not kick/ban you.

    And all that has to happen is release the map like normal. When a side makes there overlay they release it packed as such

    level_name.rar/level_name/client.zip/hud/minimap/ingamemap.dds

    then people just extract the map just like they were installing the map. the hotfix would not be 30mb. If people fix their minimaps they go from 16mbs (bfeditor size) down to 2mb or less.

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  10. #10
    Registered User Allies 27 Private
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    That would replace the real client.zip with one that only contains the minimap. Windows doesn't do add to archive, it only does replace.


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  11. #11
    Registered User Allies 30 Private
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    Adder is partially correct here. the server.zip can be modified safely if the file sizes in the zip are the same as they were before. But as soon as you get a bit out of the correct size it may start giving random crashes. Also, the BF2 engine is utter crap in cache and memory clearing(as in: shutdown. delete stuff, restart. its still there?! try again. its gone).

    Minimaps for both sides? Probably possible, again if both sizes have the same file size. Offcourse this may be difficult depending on the file format and how many colours both side use. Although different rules may be allowed for this.

    Client side, pretty much anything can be edited until it looks completely different. scary but true. I am working on building a new md5 hash with the minimod. This has acts as a signature on all files and allows the engine to check the integrity of the files. When it detects a error it will kick the player. Fortunately the BF2 devs were kind enough to include a couple of scripts to allow the checking.


    EDIT: These hashes can also be done map-side. So that may require some testing to see how far it allows people to extend that security hole(knowing BF2, probably to jupiter or some saturn).


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  12. #12
    Registered User Allies 27 Private
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    Minimaps are dds, dds are always the same filesize unless using some goofy dds that doesn't have to be ^2.


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  13. #13
    World at War
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ka* Paasky View Post
    Minimaps are dds, dds are always the same filesize unless using some goofy dds that doesn't have to be ^2.
    If you save it in the correct format and size yes

    Unpacking, re-packing. This would only lead to problems IMO.

  14. #14
    World at War
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    I put stuff in the minimap on one. Is this an overlay?



    or do you mean something else?

  15. #15
    World at War
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    Picture not showing up for me Ayrton, but if its the letters you had on a map you were working on then yes. The word overlay is somewhat wrong to use as you are infarct just editing/painting on the existing mini map dds picture, that you then replace the original picture with.

    If used both sides just need to used the same program and format and we should be good to go.

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  16. #16
    Registered User Allies 30 Private
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    They dont have to use the same program, just a editor that can handle .dds files. As paasky mentioned, there always the same file size.


    Damned if we do, no fun if we don't

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  17. #17
    Registered User Allies 25 Soldat
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    The overlays are a hassle in FH2, and we can do just as well without them. They were nice to have in FH1, but in FH2 we have the Q-spots instead, and they are better and more accurate than an overlay ever was. I don't want overlays.

  18. #18
    Registered User Allies 30 Private
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    You wouldnt need to have to install it. Everyone could make there own for that matter.


    Damned if we do, no fun if we don't

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  19. #19
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaX~ minimal View Post
    The overlays are a hassle in FH2, and we can do just as well without them. They were nice to have in FH1, but in FH2 we have the Q-spots instead, and they are better and more accurate than an overlay ever was. I don't want overlays.

    Except that Q-Spotting has a range. You can only Q-Spot so far and only units close to you can see the Q-Spot. I've always felt minimap overlays were much better. Even with the q-spot system people are still using keypads as reference and colored sections which conform to the map are much better and a lot more accurate as well as easier to use. Also it helps the commander out a lot more. Because on the command map you can not see grid lines just as on the compass map you cannot see grid lines.
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  20. #20
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    Okay. When it comes down to making the overlay there is nothing that can mess up anything.

    The server will not kick you. The server will not crash. It doesnt matter what either side has. Each individual person could have there own and it wouldn't matter. PB will not pick it up. PB will not kick you for hacking.

    It doesn't matter the file size. It doesn't matter what program you use to make it. In fact as long as it's .dds and "size X size" that the map is you can put in a picture of whatever you want it and it will load the picture.

    When it comes down to getting these to work or if they work i've already worked it all out and tested it.

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  21. #21
    Registered User Allies 27 Private
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    Yes, but we can't ask everyone to open their client.zips and open a certain folder in it and add the ingamemap.dds into it.

    Well we could, but knowing the computer-finesse some of our clientele have....

    Which is why you need to keep the minimap separate from the client.zip if you want this to work on a tourny-wide scale, not just for you.


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  22. #22
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    WinRar will automatically extract into itself paasky. And into the right folders if you have it set up properly.
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  23. #23
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    yeah winrar has the add/replace for zips so

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  24. #24
    Registered User Allies 27 Private
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    But that would require clicking a radio button, which will prob cause much confusion.


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  25. #25
    Registered User Axis 25 Yontohei
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    well i think it pops ups and asks you what you want to do anyways... idk just wanted to bring it up so that maybe the cinc's for next campaign can decide what they want to do and that it can be done

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  26. #26
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    I think it is a great idea.

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  27. #27
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    Sounds good but i still have my doubts about this being better than what we have right now.I saw one of the overlayed FH1 minimaps a while ago and i vaguely remember it.

    Can somebody post one of them so we can see how they were exactly or is it just like what Ayrton posted? The one that i saw, if i remember correctly had different colors and names, painted areas around the flags/landmarks and what not.

    Like i said i have doubts on how is this going to be an advantadge other than being able to locate the grid a couple seconds faster than you might now.

    Also if we already have a few guys having problems installing hotfixes properly,i don't know how well is it going to work unless the MTPs add it in the "right before battle version" what will force them to make two different zips,etc...

    I don't know,like everything else i guess that we can always give it a shot during the scrims.

  28. #28
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    An old overlay:



    Previous discussion thread:
    http://bfewaw.com/showthread.php?t=23414

  29. #29
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    Like i said i have doubts on how is this going to be an advantadge other than being able to locate the grid a couple seconds faster than you might now.
    Just by looking at the one Avro posted,

    -Most obvious advantage is marking crossable fjords for tankers and people driving instead of asking over TS on battle day "Hey where the fjords" and getting a reply "Some where in A-5"

    -Giving Bridges Proper Nouns as to be more distinguishable instead of getting random "Bridge at K-5 is mined"

    -Giving Airforce an easier way of locating targets[while flying you really can't go into big map mode, so its just easier if someone says Green zone[what ever] ]

    -As you said if you go ahead and put the keypad system on it takes less time to shout it out over TS and there is less confusion as there is a standard.

    -You can re-name the flags if they are stupidly named and everyone will know it.

    -Also not sure, but I believe he has outlined the entry positions to flags that have gates [I assume the aqua lines represent a gate or barrier that has holes in it]

    Mind you this is from what I assume at looking at it, in practice there are probably many other advantages to having a detailed mini-map.
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  30. #30
    You would be correct on all of those, in addition you can't see it well heath closets and ammo crates were marked. As were the spawn points
    October 4th 2004-December 10th 2011

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