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  1. #31
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    Nice work Scorpion. A big pat on the backl for the fella. Can't wait to try it out.

    ......Click Sig For Records......

  2. #32
    RA*[33FM]^|Antimatter
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    Where do we submit mini-mod bugs?
    I've found a problem with the Bf-109. The cannon (edit) convergence is off considerably. If you fire the hub cannon you can see that the shot will hit well above where it's aimed.

  3. #33
    [FEB]HD|Sd.sep
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    After some playtime I am of the opinion that the SMGs have been nerfed a bit too much. I had an easier time killing in close quarters with my rifle than people with SMGs because by the second or third short (depending on tompson or mp40) their rounds were hitting practically behind them. It's one thing to try and make the game more realistic, it's another to totally destroy an aspect of it by doing so, and render a set of weapons inneffective.

  4. #34
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    I must say I have the same feeling. You can't hit anything more than five meters away either. I think it was a bit overdone..

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  5. #35
    Registered User Allies 25 Soldat
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    And who added the cow sound?
    The soldier formerly knowns as:
    [32SD]B|Sgt.Greenfriend - [34GD]RG#|Lt.Greenfriend - [38GM]AT|Aloc.Greenfriend - [46Z]G|Sze.Greenfriend

  6. #36
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    Guys, there is no default "SMG range" anymore, every weapon has it's own characteristics.

    If you want an idea of what does what, just look at history. Thompson? Massive round, huge stopping power, but very short range. PPSh? Longer range, small round. And so on.

    They're all modelled based on real characteristics now, and realistic ranges to boot. No more .65 sniping.



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  7. #37
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    I must say, that im pretty dissapointed about the CQ weapons. First they took the spawnable classes off, and now the thompson is a big joke. I'm really hoping they will fix it back.
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  8. #38
    Veteran Allies 24 Recruit
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    T|Sgt.Spaceman]I must say, that im pretty dissapointed about the CQ weapons. First they took the spawnable classes off, and now the thompson is a big joke. I'm really hoping they will fix it back.
    No, the Thompson is how it should be. Heavy round, short range. Up close it's the most powerful SMG in the game.

    FH were quite erroneous in giving it the ranged abilities they did, it never ever was a long range weapon.



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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    T|Sgt.Spaceman]I must say, that im pretty dissapointed about the CQ weapons. First they took the spawnable classes off, and now the thompson is a big joke. I'm really hoping they will fix it back.
    I have to agree a little, there is a difference between a short range of 50 meter and the one we got now, about 5 meter. Ofcourse it shouldn't be 50 meter in-game, but at least a bit further, a pistol outshoots it.

    Though I don't mind the changes, I like the fact we got the SMG's back and I know this is all beta version. I would like to see the work out in battles.

    Also when working on the weapons, make the Bazooka and Panzerschreck more the same, people put it in the maps like they are comparable, but the difference is at the moment way to big. Change that in the next patch, so they both do the same damage.

  10. #40
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    Just can't see any idea how it will work like cleaning houses, because after 3 shot's the gun is pointing to the roof =)
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    T|Sgt.Spaceman]I must say, that im pretty dissapointed about the CQ weapons. First they took the spawnable classes off, and now the thompson is a big joke. I'm really hoping they will fix it back.
    *rubbing eyeballs*

    I said the very same thing in training on bocage to you guys as well

    all the effects in game are based on REAL LIFE test fires. The basic priciple used by allies when trying to kill someone with the thompson was to aim for the guys feet, and the thompson would cut him in half

    American gun collectors prefer the PPSH over any weapon. Sure it kicks a lot (and mp40 climbs the least and is more controllable) but it has the fursthest effective range (menaing the HIGHEST HITRATE per clip on a target in the distance)

    the Thompson was notorious for its climbrate and brutalness. Now in all fairness i used it in said training on bocage, and i had no problems outgunning a pistolshooter, why?, i was not bunnyhopping with the thin, i just gave two controlled bursts and the target wnet down.

    Realise weapons are getting more realistic, and bunnyhopping with them isn't the best test, nor is a movie refernce on how weapons work. The mod team has put a lot of efforts in this to balance all the weapons out more evenly (ALL heandweapons have been balanced like this so no were not screwing one side over here), and we were hoping you would like it, not get a bucket of **** on our heads.

    if you need more details just buzz me and i will be happy to take this discussion out of here and into the PM's so you can see the full extent of this, and that its more than just a thompson.

    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    T|Sgt.Spaceman]Just can't see any idea how it will work like cleaning houses, because after 3 shot's the gun is pointing to the roof =)
    one more thing, counteract the upward kick, works like a charm

    -Ordos-



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  12. #42
    [FEB]HD|Sd.sep
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    Sorry Ordos, but I'm going to have to go and disagree. It's one thing to counteract the upward kick, but at the same time there's the fact that the bullets are going left and right in an area as large as a zooka reticle when running if you are moving and have already taken a shot. The semi-automatic rifles have less of a problem with this than smgs when fired at the same rate (mp40 vs g43).

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    S*%!|Nk.sep]Sorry Ordos, but I'm going to have to go and disagree. It's one thing to counteract the upward kick, but at the same time there's the fact that the bullets are going left and right in an area as large as a zooka reticle when running if you are moving and have already taken a shot. The semi-automatic rifles have less of a problem with this than smgs when fired at the same rate (mp40 vs g43).
    Aye as it should be. Ever used an SMG whilst running? Most were fired when crouched (see most every picture you see of german soldiers in action) coz it would be next to impossible to get an accurate shot while running

    as for the G43, longer rifle, better bullet charateristics, though you still have to be lucky to hit anything further than say 4-5 metres away from you while on the run

    -Ordos-



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  14. #44
    Rex
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    I must say that i love this new mod.

    Now (at long ranges.) people have to pick up a rifle, and learn to shoot for real.

    And you`re never supposed to shoot while moving anyway.

  15. #45
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    Now (at long ranges.) people have to pick up a rifle, and learn to shoot for real
    Yeah. Really funny with ping like 150
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  16. #46
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    I've been a rifleman since 0.5 and Campaign #6. Even though I wasn't a SMG'er I must say I don't like the changes. Yes I know it's realistic, but realism isn't always fun. I like to hit people aswell ^^. If everyone here wanted heavy realism I don't see why WaW didn't pick to use the XWW2 mod instead after Campaign #5.

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  17. #47
    Rex
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    T|Sgt.Spaceman]
    Now (at long ranges.) people have to pick up a rifle, and learn to shoot for real
    Yeah. Really funny with ping like 150
    I have a ping around that, and i can hit most of what i see with a rifle.
    *end shameless bragging*

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    S|Capt.SaUrOn]Also when working on the weapons, make the Bazooka and Panzerschreck more the same, people put it in the maps like they are comparable, but the difference is at the moment way to big. Change that in the next patch, so they both do the same damage.
    The Panzerschreck was a better anti-tank weapon than the Bazooka. It could penetrate around 200mm of armor versus the Bazooka's 100mm. Making them the same would be similar to changing the PPSh and Thompson and making them identical to the MP40, which they most definitely were not.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    T|Sgt.Spaceman]Yeah. Really funny with ping like 150
    Cap Japs doesn't seem to have a problem. He's the best rifleman I've seen and he lives in Europe.

    As to your assertion about the Thompson - it has one-shot lethality up to 44 in-game meters in the version you were testing. It will be slightly higher in the new hotfix. "5 meters" must be pure hyperbole, or you must be bunnyhopping and hitting the guy's foot or something.

    As to fun, why do you think we took the SMGs out before this? Because no one had fun when a rifle was useless. SMGs are useful and have a place, their REAL place on the battlefield. Short ranges only. House/trench cleaning.

    NOT long range sniping. If you want to snipe at long range with a SMG why not go back and play vanilla BF1942?

  20. #50
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    There's no need to start getting aggrevated and telling people to play vanilla

  21. #51
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    Sorry, you're right. But this is NOT XWW2, and if we want to keep SMGs as a spawnable kit they had to be less effective. They had a place on the FH battlefield they aren't supposed to have, as the kings of the battlefield. I thought the best way to do this was to try and have them perform as they did on a real battlefield. Once I got used to the Thompson I had great fun clearing buildings with it.

    Give the new SMGs a chance, we can always go back to them being king if that is what everyone wants.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SR[J35
    ^|Scorpion] we can always go back to them being king if that is what everyone wants.
    I don't see it as everyone wanting that return. I like the change and I congratulate Scorpion on a job well done
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  23. #53
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    Yes, at first I hated the crosshair sizes for all the weapons, but after playing in a few practices I like them more. It will be interesting to play w/ them in a "real" battle. Good work Scorp!

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  24. #54
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    when i go to the public ftp.battleforeurope, i see two hotfixes: minimod hotfix.rar and Minimod Hotfix2.rar

    do i download them both? or do i just download the first one?
    Fobo, who is retired
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  25. #55
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    People are always opposed to change...It's been that way since the start of recorded history.

    [Ax3-4] [Ax6] [Observer] [J17] [J21] [22RN] [KgG] [30AI] [34GD] [39Fj] [42Wx] [51FJ]

  26. #56
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    Well, minimod hotfix 2 has some slight tweaks based on feedback and battle testing, and it is apparently finished, but no one with admin rights has announced it to the teams yet. So until the servers have it you'll have to stick with the first hotfix.

  27. #57
    [FEB]HD|Sd.sep
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    Quote Originally Posted by [TA
    Ordos {PIMP}]
    Quote Originally Posted by [36GR
    S*%!|Nk.sep]Sorry Ordos, but I'm going to have to go and disagree. It's one thing to counteract the upward kick, but at the same time there's the fact that the bullets are going left and right in an area as large as a zooka reticle when running if you are moving and have already taken a shot. The semi-automatic rifles have less of a problem with this than smgs when fired at the same rate (mp40 vs g43).
    Aye as it should be. Ever used an SMG whilst running? Most were fired when crouched (see most every picture you see of german soldiers in action) coz it would be next to impossible to get an accurate shot while running

    as for the G43, longer rifle, better bullet charateristics, though you still have to be lucky to hit anything further than say 4-5 metres away from you while on the run

    -Ordos-
    I'm sorry that you don't seem to agree with the sentiments about the smgs felt by myself and many of hte other players, but I'm glad to see that the mini-mod team went ahead and made the SMGs a bit better.

  28. #58
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    The semi-automatic rifles add more deviation per shot than the SMGs do. Plus, the reduction rate from fire deviation is not as fast. So the SMGs having more of a "problem" in this respect is perception rather than reality. However, it has been suggested that I remove the compensation for recoil from SMGs, as I did for the pistols. I had thought this would make them even more difficult to control, but we'll test it and see if it makes the SMGs better.

    Deviation is a tool which is intended to represent how difficult it is to aim weapons, to control them while firing, to aim at various stances, and so on. The BF engine is unfortunately limited in many ways, including the ability to simulate many things which made the weapons impossible to use in the manner they were being used with the previous code. The individual code changes themselves may sometimes be counterintuitive but this is because they are intended to produce an end result which forces players to use the weapons as they were intended.

    SMGs were not used for sustained fire, they were impossible to control except in bursts. They were not used on the run, though up close they could be used to spray and clean out a room or trench. Those things are possible, and the sniping at range and such which SMGs were not used for is now all but impossible. Short barrel = better at aiming in close quarter battles but very poor accuracy.

    If you are telling me that SMGs cannot defeat rifles at close range, there is a problem. I have a feeling though that this is simply a matter of becoming attuned to the way SMGs now work. If rifles, even semi-auto, are better in CQB, the code will be tweaked.

    However, in testing we have not found this to be true. Tomorrow will be a good litmus test.

  29. #59
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    I would just have to say that it is much like when we changed from vanilla to FH or in certain large updates when there were massive changes, people would not be used to the changes and there would be stife at first. However, over time, most of the time, it is for the best and we get used to it and adapt. Just my thoughts on the matter.

    Good work by the mini-mod team on this, nice to see that our mappers and coders and hard at work with the maps, vehicles and now code

  30. #60
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    I'm sure that by the end of everyone's first round with the new codes in place, everyone will have the hang of it. I highly doubt it'll be a problem, we just have to learn to adapt.

    -Bagginses

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