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  1. #1
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    Public Opinion on 4 Divisions

    With the tremendous number of people signing up this campaign, some people are no doubt thinking of going 2 divisions per side like in the good old days.

    I'm curious what the general population thinks.

    Personally, I feel it would be hasty to split to two divisions per side until after a minimum of two or three scrims to see how many people actually come out to fight and how many just signed up to check it out. I think it would be tragic to jump the gun like we've done in other campaigns and go straight to four divisions based purely on the number of people signed up.

    A more accurate count would be the number of people who have made more than five or ten posts on the forum, or the number of people who have signed up for a squad or company or whatever you have on either side.

    I think that it would be far messier to have to merge divisions half-way through the campaign than to have to split a division.

    What do you guys think?

  2. #2
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    2 Divisions only if there are long lines... I mean... if you split the divisions and you have alot of inactives on both sides, there's no turnout and everything gets ****ed over... it's actually soothing to know you have a couple people waiting in line to play... you know if someone ****s up and has to go, another person can take there spot. Simple as that

  3. #3
    [Retired]Proton
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    yes Im very much of the same opinion .. personally I think the worst thing was can do it go with 2 divisions too early .. yes we have a lot of signups but until we have the scrims and possibly battles we wont know how many are going to show up. Im very happy with 1 division because I know we wont have attendance problems from it which is the main cause of negativity in BFE.

    I did however say this in a thread a few days ago and Haiku locked it .. I spoke with him after and apparently the decision has already been made to go to 2 divisions when some criteria have been met (not sure what) - but the good thing is that if they do go to 2 divisions all the current people already signed up will not have to move .. however Im not quite sure how that will work ... I have asked Haiku to release a bit more info on this officially but he hasnt posted anything yet .. I get the impression that the CO's dont want us to know for some reason hope Im wrong

  4. #4
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    Although i agree on not creating two divisions too hasty, I hope it won't turn down new players as they have to wait for a long time. I know what i'm waiting for, but new players can get easily discouraged by waiting too long.

  5. #5
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    Waiting long for a place to fight is bad, but fighting with 2:1 or even 4:1 is even worst...

    Lets stick together, and only when people don't get to play, think of an alternative [there are more then just splitting]...

    Cheers,
    Mokum

  6. #6
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    Hey mokum, can you please stop letting your kid play? he's tk'ing all the time :@

    BFE-WaW: [22RN] [26MEU] [30AI] [36GR] [FEB] [42Wx] [44M]
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by [22RN
    M|Pte.Winther]Hey mokum, can you please stop letting your kid play? he's tk'ing all the time :@

    ha ha - maybe I should try that.

    Last option by the way.
    Pentium 4 3.2GHz Cpu, ASUS P4S800 mobo, 1Gig PC3200 DDR Mem, Windows XP SP2, XFX 6600GT AGP 128MB, SB Live 5:1 Digital, 160gig HDD

    Stirring it up since WAW #1

  8. #8
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    I think it should be done by feel, not just numbers. The division generals know best how their troop numbers are, partly by forum participation (signing up to a squad like praetor said) and by attendence during the scrimms. Of course, if we had actually advertised ourselves properly then we wouldn't be worrying so much because we'd have a flood of recruits to match #4.

  9. #9
    HK[AgB]***|Hudson
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    It's a difficult one...scrims are not necessarily going to attract the same number of players as the full battles, so it's very difficult to tell at the moment. 300 people is a lot competing for 30 slots!

  10. #10
    [34GD]SR|MPra.dutchsolo
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    Although it hurts too, merging divisions is prefered over splitting up.
    Cause it's hell to be in the Waiting Room for an hour or more and not getting into the game, even worse than battling when the odds are 4:1.. I've been there

    I'll bet that a lot of new-comers will then leave to never come back again

    my 2 €(euro)cents

  11. #11
    [22RN]A|PO.Raptor
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    It’s hard to know what the participation level will be. When its P2P then you get a higher number of registered players actually participating. When it’s a free tournament, you will see a flood of new guys with a smaller percentage actually participating. I won't even take a stab at what the percentage is but its not good.

    Typically a certain number of registered players will "trip" a new division. What that number is can be anybody's guess. This information belongs to those much higher than most of us.

    A problem with starting a new division and not taking anybody (other than COs) from the established division is the monumental challenge of completely indoctrinating and training guys that are new to WAW. Most of the veterans sign up early and end up in the first divisions established. Its difficult to pick command staff and NCOs on first impressions but might be necessary because most of the division's structure needs to be in place by the first battle. A scirm and a practice may not be enough evaluation time. The COs are really taking a leap of faith but this does not always turn out to be bad though, just risky.


    Raptor

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    I am all for 4 divisions, I think it adds something extra to the game. But I would hope lessons have been learned from past campaigns, especially WaW#5.
    We started as 2 divisions, then boom, the numbers hit the desired amount and we had 4 divisions overnite. This is good, but even in a P2P campaign the numbers of active members wasn't great. The new divisions had a very short amount of time to prepare and it was a mess for a couple of days.
    Then guess what, numbers were poor in battles, those that paid were not as active as it was presumed they would be, and the divisions were forced to merge. A total mess again for a day or two.Everyone had to completely readjust.
    Great sign-up numbers does not mean great activeness. Lets hope we do get alot of active players so we can have 4 divisions.

  13. #13
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    FWIW: we admin types realize all of the factors involved here and are not going to make this decision lightly. We are going to be looking at the scrims as a guide for active attendance. Scrims attendance is not as good as regular battles, so if attendance is over flowing for a scrim or two, then we know that we will have to do something to allow the players to play.

  14. #14
    [Retired]Proton
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    Quote Originally Posted by [TC
    Kommisar]FWIW: we admin types realize all of the factors involved here and are not going to make this decision lightly. We are going to be looking at the scrims as a guide for active attendance. Scrims attendance is not as good as regular battles, so if attendance is over flowing for a scrim or two, then we know that we will have to do something to allow the players to play.
    **phew** .. and I thought you guys just sat around eating donuts all day

  15. #15
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    nah that's what we do Proton

    [B12]R2|Sgt. -- [A]C|Leg. -- [22RN]P|LCpl. -- [32SD]G*|LCpl.
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  16. #16
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    proton, thats a pic (smily) of popcorn....unless that's what donuts are in the UK
    21CW #1-8 [O6]K, [8MD]A, PT[14SA], PT[16SG], [FA] x3, [6AB]A
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  17. #17
    HK[AgB]***|Hudson
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    Back on topic, it's clear that we're closer to numbers needed for 4 divisions. 630 are registered! Axis had a practice scrim last night, and surprisingly we had enough for two whole teams. I've never seen such good attendance for a practice in 3 campaigns of BFE. The introduction of the FH mod has really injected more interest in BFE and I feel that we're close to going to 4 divisions without risk of having to merge back...

  18. #18
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    I agree with Hudson, during the more or less "disorganized" (time of announcement and lot of new players, which probably didn't even know a practice was on) practice there were at least 32 people on. Image a real war, with a right preparation, that means at least 50 Axis, since I missed a lot of the veterans at the practice.

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    I would wait

    Mmmmh but then again, you know that you're going to ran into trouble with the attendance when splitting. We had it so many times in the past. I would wait till we reach 1000
    gg

  20. #20
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    It is difficult, but when you don't split you will discourage people who don't want to wait for an hour to play, I think the max you sh0uld have to wait should be 1/2 hour. New players will be easily lost when waiting times are too high.

  21. #21
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    Meh: split 'em up, but make it simple and easy to reinforce. No one enjoys an out-numbered battle, so I hope ya don't use that stupid rule we had the last campaign.

    [B12]R2|Sgt. -- [A]C|Leg. -- [22RN]P|LCpl. -- [32SD]G*|LCpl.
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    Well

    I agree Azik Blaze.
    If we go for two divisions, they should do it now though so you can set everything up. Right now, everybody is playing together, and there are a lot of vets. we need to be sure that those vets are split up also between the two divisions. Its a rather difficult task, but if we are going to do that, it has to be done quite soon.
    gg

  23. #23
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    2 divs. if there's enough ppl.

  24. #24
    [Retired]Proton
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    The reason we are waiting guys is that yes we have lots of signups but they are just that .. half havent even signed up for a company and then half probably wont be that active .. so without going into figures essentially we have the right amount for 1 division and no attendance problems.

    The scrims will be a good indication for what we should all expect .. if they are so packed everyone is waiting for ages then you know what will happen .. if they arent then again you know what the probable outcome will be.

    Key thing here is to remember that this is a beta campaign essentially .. no one has tried this with FH before and no one wants to diminish the results or the fun by splitting too soon just for the sake of it. But it is under serious consideration and the decision that will be made will be in the best interests of everyone whatever it is.

    Proton

  25. #25
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    You can already start preparations (e.g. getting the right people, assigning CO's, setting up barracks) for the creations of extra divisions I think. Than you don't have a time shortage when they are really created, and there isn't much going wrong (except for some waste of time) if they aren't created. This is all done offcourse under secrecy, and the barracks can't be seen for others like the officerbarracks and stuff like that.

  26. #26
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    This is all done offcourse under secrecy,


    But there is another developement actually that has turned this topic completely around on us. More goes on under the surface than is meets the eye!!! Expect a big announcement some time today actually...

  27. #27
    Registered User 23_German Schuetze (first rank)
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    ....

    Someone mentioned active forum members as being representative of active players.

    I think this is an accurate of way of looking at things.

    Apart from that, I think it's easier to split up divisions than it is to consolidate; it's far easier to rise to leadership, than it is to relinquish it.

  28. #28
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    Ok, here's something for you math geniuses...if scrims don't show the numbers as battles do (which I agree) then explain to me what teh decisions are going to be based upon? Axis had a internal division scrim on sunday, no big secret and we had over 30 people at times. Now let's say 30 people show up for the battle we have 10 over and you open up the second server, so it's 20v20 and 10v9 or something like that or 8v10 or 10v15 and those new guys that end up on the second server for their first of second time are just gonna go back to clan play, cause there they can do the same things without ALL THIS FREAKIN HASSLE.

    My opinion:
    2 servers = 2 divisions

    1st of all
    people would be less confused and would have more fun, they can fight with their team and having more teams to fight against gives a little more variety to the whole thing.
    2nd of all
    blahblah we have so many active forum members right now, that if even 20% of those (I'm talking about the ones that have posted in the axis forum) would show up, we'd already have more than 1 server full. And to split up squads during the battles seems like a irrational idea when you could just have an army playing on each server with their own structure and without confusion. This just seems very irrational to me.

  29. #29
    Guest
    Something to keep in mind is that 20 active members in the forums does not mean 20 players in combat.

    Consider that people have real lives and the timeframe they can compete in can be vastly different. 20 active members spread across North America and Europe easily translates to as few as 2-4 players in a given hour.

  30. #30
    Guest
    if you look at the history of waw youll notice that there have beeen a lot of problems caused by the early split...i say leave until its absolutely necessary. Id rather have people complain about full servers than empty ones

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