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View Full Version : Updates: Scrim 31ToL vs 32SD



Avrojet
06-19-2004, 10:30 AM
Updates and map opinions for the scrim only.

Tobruk

Guardalcanal

Bizory Farm

Causacus

[onLeave]Tank Johann
06-19-2004, 04:47 PM
Don't forget to note any bugs too (e.g. floating trees, etc.) :)

[WaW]Gnug225
06-19-2004, 07:01 PM
I happened to be on defense in one spot at the farm flag on Bizory Farm and I did notice some floating trees just S/SW of the Barn (the first set of trees heading from the corner of the barn/lumber pile area). :)

And I don't know if it's a camera bug or something else on my end, but I couldn't see an ally (fellow farm defender) sitting in a Hanomag for the longest time (even after death/respawn). I couldn't see either him or the Hanomag. It could be because I was laying down and switching camera angles in those floating trees, to watch out for infantry.

I did install the hotfix for the map also.

[30AI]Q|Pte.Error
06-19-2004, 07:10 PM
On Bizory that middle contention bunker still has a lot of places where the skin doesnt cover the model making you think you can shoot through it, just an annoying thing to learn the proper spots. Much more stable map now then when I last played it though, good job.

Edit: OK I just played Tobruk for the first time, I don't know what the purpose y'all had in mind was, but its the most obviously heavy-biased map I've played in a long time. 3 flags - 2 flag, a 3 flag bleed, guess who wins? I mean, it's basically hopeless.

Edit again: I just came back and read it, that came out wrong. I don't know what you guys intend to use the map for, Allied attack or defense, but as a defense map it's horribly biased and nearly hopeless for the allies. It would make a good map as a sort of 'north african capitol' but seeing as we don't have very many territories in N. Afrika atm I don't see what it would be used for. If you guys had something in mind I could probably critique that better then just standing here doing this : :wha:

Nazghul
06-19-2004, 09:05 PM
Increase planes spawntime on Guadalcanal... there is no point in dogfighting when new plane spawns in 10s ... to think it again, it is better to drop bombs and crash, than take time to fly back and reload... it's just faster.

I would go for something like: 1min for fighters (wildcat, zero), 1.5 min for fighterbombers (SBD, Arcival) and 3min for heavy bombers (B25, Betty).

Cyan Winters
06-19-2004, 09:13 PM
3 min is abit extreme, atleast for the betty, because they are the slowest, and thus easiest to shoot down. Fighter-Bombers are more deadly anyway..

rOBvAN
06-19-2004, 09:43 PM
Tobruk - For a map that is supposed to be defended by allies, it sure as hell doesn't appear so. Perhaps a 2, 3 flag formation rather than a 3, 2 like it is now. The changes are fantastic but balance seems very hard to implement into that map. For some reason it is much easier to spot the sherman while in the pz4 than it is for the sherman to see the pz4 (just something I noticed while tanking).

Guadalcanal - For some reason it slightly favours the axis. Spawn times on vehicles needs increasing (not by too much though). There is far too much equipment available than is needed (atleast for a WAW map). Perhaps try other armour arrangements to try to balance it more. Extra Stuart for allies perhaps? Other than that the map is pretty good, well placed flags, good terrain etc.

Mz[J35]~|ShoKay
06-20-2004, 01:09 AM
Only got to play GuadalCanal and Tobruk all day today, but they seemed pretty fun. I still have reservations about Tobruk, but GuadalCanal seems like the old favourite it always has been, annoying equipment aside (it's sorta awkward how the close quarters advantage of the Thompson has to be balanced by the rifle Arisaka. I'm not saying I can think of a better way, I'm just saying it's an unfortunate matchup in the Pacific theatre generally)

Hiroyoshi
06-20-2004, 02:22 AM
Is the Grease gun not in this version of FH?

[30AI]Q|Pte.Error
06-20-2004, 03:35 AM
^^^|Hiroyoshi]Is the Grease gun not in this version of FH? No.

Guadalcanal, the axis jeep gets there faster then the allied jeep, but the allied jeep holds more people so that's OK I think except - the axis could delay spawn and take that flag before the allies got a chance OR the axis Aichival can get there in time to bomb the american jeep, there is no way the American planes can there that fast. I haven't fought at Outpost but axis seemed to have their way with it as well.

RA[33FM]/|Shai
06-20-2004, 04:18 AM
Guadalcanal

Well, it was a good and balanced map, and I think we scored just about as well as axis as we did as allied. Strange because the allied have better hardware. Sherman tanks are better, but the huge difference is in the heavy bomber. The Betty is just ok while the B-25 is just ownage.

Still, the map was balanced so I don't think any changes are neccesary.

Tobruk

Yet another good map, and removing the tanks down to one per side was all for the better.

I notice that some guys have commented on the 3 - 2 flagsituation, but fact is that we won with more tickets as allied than we did as axis.

Balanced map, and there is no need for changes.

[30AI]Q|Pte.Error
06-20-2004, 06:54 AM
~~~~|Shai]Guadalcanal

Well, it was a good and balanced map, and I think we scored just about as well as axis as we did as allied. Strange because the allied have better hardware. Sherman tanks are better, but the huge difference is in the heavy bomber. The Betty is just ok while the B-25 is just ownage.

Still, the map was balanced so I don't think any changes are neccesary.

Tobruk

Yet another good map, and removing the tanks down to one per side was all for the better.

I notice that some guys have commented on the 3 - 2 flagsituation, but fact is that we won with more tickets as allied than we did as axis.

Balanced map, and there is no need for changes.

We must have been in different rounds then, because Allies did a LOT better as axis then allies on Tobruk. The basic fact is, if it was a real battle with assignments etc, the Germans would never lose a flag. 3 companies, one to a flag, there you go, no losses, the British have to run across what is basically a giant rifle range to get to a flag, bleeding all the while. And in the rare event THEY do take a flag, Germans can reinforce quicker and take it back. You shouldn't judge the map based on the outcome of 2 disorganized rounds.

DaNCeT
06-20-2004, 10:39 AM
I only played two rounds Tobruk, but they were both won by us, both playing as axis and allies. So I don't see why the map would be so biased? Can anyone explain me why it would be so 'heavily biased' than? Anyone?

Mz[J35]~|ShoKay
06-20-2004, 12:37 PM
Q|Pte.Error]

We must have been in different rounds then, because Allies did a LOT better as axis then allies on Tobruk. The basic fact is, if it was a real battle with assignments etc, the Germans would never lose a flag. 3 companies, one to a flag, there you go, no losses, the British have to run across what is basically a giant rifle range to get to a flag, bleeding all the while. And in the rare event THEY do take a flag, Germans can reinforce quicker and take it back. You shouldn't judge the map based on the outcome of 2 disorganized rounds.

I would assume you were talking about the first couple of rounds DanceT, when we were frankly not on our toes and lost both rounds, later the difference in the flag situation became more apparent. Perhaps a 4:1 flag bleed would work better, but I just generally feel that Tobruk, despite the fantastic terraforming changes it has had recently, is alright, but not substansially better than current maps to replace them.

RA[33FM]/|Shai
06-20-2004, 01:11 PM
We won more as allied than axis all night, and we actually made it better and better as allied the more into the scrim we went.

The map is good as it is.

Winther
06-20-2004, 01:11 PM
Maybe we could just add another territory for Torbuk then.

DaNCeT
06-20-2004, 02:48 PM
T|2Lt.Winther]Maybe we could just add another territory for Torbuk then.

That would indeed be a good solution, we can use some extra Africa-maps.

@Shokay: no, I was talking about the middle of the battle, not the start.

Mz[J35]~|ShoKay
06-20-2004, 04:15 PM
Ah k, I must have missed the rounds you're talking about then.
Yeah, extra African maps sounds decent, I actually really like the Tobruk rifle-play in the 'rifle range' as PE called it, I just like the other African maps better.

OKW[45PzL]*****|Scorpion
06-20-2004, 07:52 PM
With one side having an advantage in proximity to a greater number of flags, the other side should have an advantage in terms of materiel. As it was in the past, the axis would need a big artillery/tank advantage because they had to attack against allied entrenched positions. Right now, the allies need an advantage because the axis can get to 3 flags when they can get to 2, and will be forced to attack across open ground.

So I would give the allies something more, perhaps a Greyhound or Priest, or perhaps an extra Stuart or even another Sherman (or some combination thereof). As the map is currently constructed, the allies are the attacker, and need a corresponding advantage.

[30AI]Q|Pte.Error
06-20-2004, 07:55 PM
**|Scorpion]With one side having an advantage in proximity to a greater number of flags, the other side should have an advantage in terms of materiel. As it was in the past, the axis would need a big artillery/tank advantage because they had to attack against allied entrenched positions. Right now, the allies need an advantage because the axis can get to 3 flags when they can get to 2, and will be forced to attack across open ground.

So I would give the allies something more, perhaps a Greyhound or Priest, or perhaps an extra Stuart or even another Sherman (or some combination thereof). As the map is currently constructed, the allies are the attacker, and need a corresponding advantage.

OMGzor praise be to you. This is what I wanted to post but it became a flame like 5 times and I gave up :D

RA[33FM]/|Shai
06-21-2004, 11:28 AM
Can anyone please explain to me why the allied should have more hardware on Tobruk when we actually won more as allied than axis?

I'm don't want to flame or complain, but I just don't get it. I was in there for 12 hours in the scrim and we did not have any problems playing allied.

The fact that the axis are closest to 3 flags are matched up by axis having a nightmare when they are put down to one or none flag. This should have been experienced well enough in the scrim, but I still make a remark about it when I see requests for more hardware to the allieds ;)

Let us save the balance remarks for the maps where one side is winning regardless of which division who plays that side :)

74M|Pv.Kommisar
06-21-2004, 12:40 PM
As I have said before. Post YOUR opinions but do NOT post your opinions on someone elses opinions. There is absolutely NO arguement here to win guys. We on the map team read all the remarks and then make our own decisions. Our decision is not based on the number of posts here for on side or the other. It is based on what we think is the right thing to do. These posts are here as a reference for us to get a feel of what the troops experienced.