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View Full Version : Saturdays scrim; and little surprise for an early Christmas



74M|Pv.Kommisar
12-05-2003, 01:17 AM
Okay, we will once again be holding a Scrim this Saturday. 4 Maps again as usual that will be announced shortly.

Here's the little kicker though.

We will be experimenting with the Server Size during the scrim!!!!! We will be changing up and testing various server sizes during the scrim starting the main one at 60 players!

Stay tuned for more information!!!!

Free willy
12-05-2003, 01:20 AM
I never really had a problem with 2 servers, but i can't say I'm not glad to see 50 err .. 60! player server back.

I'll have to try and get some RAM to make sure my machine runs it smooth at 60 players :wha: .

But all i can say is YAY!

See you on sat guys, FH rulez

I'm really doing happy dance :oops:

Cyan Winters
12-05-2003, 01:22 AM
Shweet! This is the best Christmas present ever! :silly:

Incursion
12-05-2003, 01:26 AM
This kicks ***.

Thanks Kommi & crew :D

[Ret]Interpol
12-05-2003, 01:32 AM
I was going to wish for peace on Earth and an end to this war but, 60 person server is better :silly:

12-05-2003, 01:33 AM
YES! AND JUST WHEN IM GETTING A NEW GRAPHICS CARD (only a 9600 pro, but much better then my geforce 4 mx o_O )

Just optimize your setting people, I never even lag and this is like the worst card ever. (Honestly, my old GeForce2 beats it in most benchmarks.)

This just goes to show: You whine about something often enough, people will listen :lol:

T5 Sam P
12-05-2003, 01:35 AM
I just hope this great early Christmas present doesn't end up being a giant lump of "Lag-Coal" :whistle:

12-05-2003, 01:38 AM
:cheers:

[AEF]L|Pfc.BuddyLee
12-05-2003, 02:00 AM
:agree: :score: :headbang: :D: :w00t: :thumbsup: (!) :party:

Iam happy to see higher server numbers.

Again, I will say that I am committed to BFE no matter. :salute:

12-05-2003, 02:14 AM
Awesome. :twisted:

12-05-2003, 02:21 AM
Woohoo! Can't wait to see how the server runs with that many people, it's gonna be very exciting!

Lesack
12-05-2003, 03:30 AM
Thanks for listening to us. :salute:

[onLeave]Tank Johann
12-05-2003, 04:09 AM
This is good news and a good test.

Let's also take this opportunity to make any notes regarding any lag that may occur. Such as which maps were laggy (if any), and when and where in the map, how many players were on the server, and what was going on at the time.

Also, if any of the TAs could monitor the CPU load on the server if and when any lag does occur. I don't know if there is any logging that can be enabled, or if it will require someone to remotely monitor it during the laggy times.

Finally, if you are experiencing lag, try this: hit ~ to open the console, then enter console.showStats 1

This will overlay your screen with a lot of useful information (and in real time too). This information includes such info as FPS, how much memory is currently being used, how many textures are loaded, etc. At least this could provide input and rule out your PC as the culprit or identify it as the problem. You won't be able to fight very well, since the overlaid info is right in the middle of your screen, but you can take a screenshot of the stats. You might want to aim at the sky when taking that screenshot in order to get a clearer view of the overlaid data. To turn it off just enter the console again and enter console.showStats 0. Then you can review the screenshot later for reference. Maybe those people that are experiencing lag on a particular map during a specific time or location, could post their screenshots in the support forums, then we can compare it with screenshots of players not experiencing lag. Just a thought.

Thanks.

Mads
12-05-2003, 04:15 AM
Nice job Kommi. http://www.digikitten.com/playhousev2/files/mike61/lmini002.gif

12-05-2003, 04:48 AM
THIS.. FRIGGIN... ROCKS... !!!!! :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang: :guitar: :guitar: :guitar: :guitar: :guitar: :score: :thumbsup:

[]gg
12-05-2003, 06:51 AM
Guys, this is the best news I've heard this morning. Thanks Kommi and everyone that is in charge of BFE. :salute:
gg

58F_Lc Ordos!
12-05-2003, 07:01 AM
Any specific maps we will play?

Ordos

[34GD]SR|MPra.dutchsolo
12-05-2003, 07:10 AM
Good thinking! Now let's get really busy and remember: it's only testing so if asked to leave, please do so.
That way Kommisar, Willy and the crew can adjust server settings rapidly.
I think a 60 person server rockx!!

:salute:
dutchsolo

[BFE]Phatass
12-05-2003, 10:51 AM
Nooooo... I can't be there on Saturday :(
Have fun guys and I really hope that it works sweet with more players. Thanks a lot for listening to the community and at least trying it out :D:

[WAW]Dangerous
12-05-2003, 10:52 AM
Apart from a few isolated incidents, I never had any lag problems last campaign.

If people ensure they have optimal PC settings and connection then I would have though that would be sufficient. Maybe stickies advising people how to get the best PC setup need to be posted as stickies? I was amazed at how few people knew how to optimise TS for example.

I would rather suffer intermittent lag than 20 man servers. With lag everyone suffers the same so its just a case of getting used to it and taking it into account.

Strats for Bf42s huge maps need at least 25 people a side, preferrably 30.

Compared to some of the early days of 21CW where lag was a major problem, WAW is pretty good.

GjW IDgaf
12-05-2003, 11:18 AM
Before you get excited, I think we should all clarify what we mean by lag Vs bad frame rate.

If I shoot someone 100 times, then he turns around and kills me with one shot - I'd call that lag. If I press a key and nothing happens for five seconds - I'd attribute that to lag.

If I'm in the middle of a battle and there are lots of players around, bombs going off and my game starts to judder - I'd assume that was a framerate problem; my computer couldn't handle the action.

That's how I define them. What about you? Before you comment on something you must make sure you're commenting *correctly*.

[BFE]Phatass
12-05-2003, 11:29 AM
/|1Dgaf]Before you get excited, I think we should all clarify what we mean by lag Vs bad frame rate.

If I shoot someone 100 times, then he turns around and kills me with one shot - I'd call that lag. If I press a key and nothing happens for five seconds - I'd attribute that to lag.

If I'm in the middle of a battle and there are lots of players around, bombs going off and my game starts to judder - I'd assume that was a framerate problem; my computer couldn't handle the action.

That's how I define them. What about you? Before you comment on something you must make sure you're commenting *correctly*.

I'm with you 100% there.
I think that most of us are too proud/stubborn/stupid to lower the detail settings/screen resolution when we notice that the framerate drops. It's very easy to blame it on the server, it's much harder to realise that your system isn't as good as you thought. Mods in general are more demanding than vanilla BF, so maybe most of us have to take one step down in screen resolution to have acceptable performance on a 60, or even a 50 player server. IMO it's worth it.
If every player having problems tried to tweak their system before blaming it on lag, we would get a clear picture of the problem. Maybe the server can't handle it anyway - ok, so be it, let's lower the number of players.

KaX Archangel
12-05-2003, 12:26 PM
well, one thing is most annoying about lag: The rubberbanding as well as the "lay down and stand up"-thing. Thats what really annoys me.

58F_Lc Ordos!
12-05-2003, 12:34 PM
well yes i am proud and try to get the most out of my system. Why?, because i want to enjoy a good display as well as a good fight. Having said that, i will never complain if framrate drops due to excessive polycount on my screen. However i will complain if i shoot.... then my tank bobs up and only then the shell leaves my barrel and flies high over the intended target. I call that lag

Not being able to switch weapons --> packet loss

taking two steps forward two steps back --> packet loss

my bullets hitting the ground behind the target while i am clearly firing in fron of him:lag
and so on.

I know the difference... trust me :wink:
Ordos

P.S. we never got any detauils on the data centre through which our servers data travels..... if its one of the main US internet hubs that passes gigbytes of info per minute or is it a dedicated game server.... and even then how many servers pass through that.

I think thats more relevant to any issue we have than anything else

GjW IDgaf
12-05-2003, 12:40 PM
*You* may know the difference, but most people don't. In the space of three posts we've now added 'packet loss' to the equation.

This the point and this is the problem. You can't accurately analyse data if all the people contributing the data use different terminology to describe the same thing.

For this scrim to be a success, for the TAs and MFOTS to get an accurate picture of what the server is doing, we *all* have to use the *same* terminology and have the same *basic* understanding.

So, can the TAs and whoever else get together and hammer this out and then do a post in the main barracks, perhaps with a poll, so people can respond.

58F_Lc Ordos!
12-05-2003, 12:43 PM
Okay to be clear to anyone:
the following things are packet loss (and i will explain why)

Getting prone and standing up
turret resetting while turnning
taking two steps foward, one to three back
weapons switching

and why is that packet loss? well its simple. You compase a series of packages to be sent so you start of with tunring your turret. You see yourself turning but you get no response from what the server has actually recieved. The server recieves 50% of your packages and sends a confirmation back (with delay because of the error checking.... you send twice as many packets coz you got no reply).

So the server packages reach you but with different info and "reset" you to that data: Rubberbanding

Ordos

66S|Pv projecTile
12-05-2003, 12:44 PM
Ok it's official now : Santa lives in Nashville, TN. These are great news and Iam so happy right now. Experimenting with the Server side is exactly what I wanted to happen.

kommisar-> :D: <-me

58F_Lc Ordos!
12-05-2003, 12:52 PM
And for all the lag fans:
Lag explained

Server side lag:
not hitting people when aiming
crashing with vehicles/planes (unintentionally. you suddenly are somwhere where you werent supposed to be

Why is this server side? Its not the server capacity (provided NOTHING else but the game runs) But its bad data transmission. The server conintously sends data but its lost in the transmission thus you get a package which is 1 second furtehr then where your pc is.

people with a better hookup will always experience less lag

Client side lag:
Also not hitting people
slow walking (only visible by other people)
Same as above only this time the client does not send its package in time through which the server determines your in a previous state then which you want to be. The rubberbanding effect however will not happen

Just to make things clear..... choppy effects on your screen are neither lag nor packet loss. Thats solely and only due to the heavy polycount on your screen, or an underspec system.

Ordos

Koolkal[OldSkool]
12-05-2003, 12:54 PM
Well, I'm both excited and scared at the same time... But hopefully .6 will reduce a lot of the slowdown. My GF2 can't handle FH at all... :cry:

And Kommy, have you investigated the "other" matter you mentioned to me last night? If this is true, god help us all. :shock:

mokum
12-05-2003, 12:55 PM
Mokum goes :bow: to kommisar

For objective [read: not generated by EA] fps, I use this little baby

http://www.fraps.com/

Besides it displaying the -true- frame rate of the game [you're in for a surprise, trust me] it does some other nice stuff as well [movie recording, jpg screen shots]

Cheers,
mokum

74M|Pv.Kommisar
12-05-2003, 01:18 PM
Well, don't think me. This present is from MFOTS... I'm just a drunk, union elf!

Don't worry guys, we are going to be monitoring the servers. Also, we are almost done with the map selection and links should be up in a second.

In all honesty though guys, I really don't see us going to 60man servers. Maybe, but I'm not hopefully. I suspect us going some where closer to 50 myself. But we shall see.

Also, we are developing something "Cheeky" for the second server! Nothing hard yet, and I'm not sure if it will work out yet. But its a radically different idea. So again, we shall see.

Azik Blaze
12-05-2003, 01:34 PM
Mmm, cheeks...

**|Koolkal]Well, I'm both excited and scared at the same time... But hopefully .6 will reduce a lot of the slowdown. My GF2 can't handle FH at all... :cry:

type this in console -> renderer.extrapolateframe 0 <-
that should help ya a bit with that GF2 :) it'll loosen up yer movement

Well it's good to hear we're givin' it a shot. But I'd like it if before anyone complains of lag while testing this, post your specs first, mainly your videocard, RAM, and net-connection so we can compare it to those with more powerful machines/connections.

vvv Yes that too vvv

[BFE]Phatass
12-05-2003, 01:38 PM
P|Pte.Azik«¤»Blaze]...But I'd like it if before anyone complains of lag while testing this, post your specs first, mainly your videocard and your RAM.
Video settings and connection speed could also help.

12-05-2003, 03:14 PM
NapalmDawn

You really have to learn not to hide your feelings DUDE!!!

LOL

More targets!!!!! NICE :lol:

[Retired]Proton
12-05-2003, 04:41 PM
This is awesome .. nice one :headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Lets just hope that people dont spoil it by cying 'lag' unnecessarily :roll:

[Ret.]Shug
12-06-2003, 05:10 AM
well it isn't FH .6 but it still is coup

good work Kommie

12-06-2003, 02:04 PM
hmmmmm

Well I have 712 mb of RAM and 126mb video card and I get lag on normal size servers. Am I going to be able to play? :wha:

[Retired]Proton
12-06-2003, 03:58 PM
|Remini]hmmmmm

Well I have 712 mb of RAM and 126mb video card and I get lag on normal size servers. Am I going to be able to play? :wha:

Then either you have a rubbish CPU or internet connection or something is wrong with your settings, etc ... there is no way you should get lag otherwise with that hardware :wha:

NaKeD
12-06-2003, 06:17 PM
dont assume like that proton.. thats what ticked me off when i complained about lag last campaign

[Retired]Proton
12-06-2003, 06:48 PM
~~~|NaKeD]dont assume like that proton.. thats what ticked me off when i complained about lag last campaign

well no Im sorry .. if you have a machine like that you should not lag with BF1942 .. simple as that .. constant complaining tends to tick people off as well Naked .. ring any bells :roll:

KaX Archangel
12-06-2003, 07:09 PM
raedeon 9700 pro, 1 Ghz, 512 MB RAM - 3 FPS on Maginot, with already reduced settings...

[Ret.]Shug
12-06-2003, 07:11 PM
Archangel85]raedeon 9700 pro, 1 Ghz, 512 MB RAM - 3 FPS on Maginot, with already reduced settings...

i think its that 1ghz PCU. Thats probably a choke point on the machine so try upgrading the proccesor

KaX Archangel
12-06-2003, 08:01 PM
|Shugart]
Archangel85]raedeon 9700 pro, 1 Ghz, 512 MB RAM - 3 FPS on Maginot, with already reduced settings...

i think its that 1ghz PCU. Thats probably a choke point on the machine so try upgrading the proccesor

tell me about it...thing is, usually I can run Fh quite well...with reduced settings it should run perfectly - it does on other maps, like bizoryfarm, and valirisk runs average - a few drops in highly urban areas, but its not that bad...

[Ret.]Shug
12-06-2003, 08:02 PM
i've heard a lot of complaints about Maginot, so its probably the map...thers like somethign in it that makes it lag

KaX Archangel
12-06-2003, 09:07 PM
The voices inside my head tell me its the Flak 88...it doesn't like to be a stationary gun...I guess the map was different in the former campaigns, so my Question: What was different, and how bad was lag/frameratedrop on it?

12-06-2003, 10:41 PM
Earlier, map had defguns.....they seemed to work fine. I can't beleive you aren't lagging on Bizory Farm, isn't everyone? :wha:

Hiroyoshi
12-06-2003, 11:02 PM
Come on guys please stop complaining!, the whole idea behind today was too try and find a medium for the server. Let me say though that its not the map causing rubber banding but that we have the player limit too high. As we lower the player numbers we will see how things go but, if we get too a good number and you than start too get FPS lag that is not the server but your machine.

[Ret.]Shug
12-06-2003, 11:14 PM
people are just never happy

58F_Lc Ordos!
12-06-2003, 11:25 PM
rubberbanding only was a problem on Bizory farm

maybe just high internet traffic. I enjoyed it tough :)

Ordos

Azik Blaze
12-06-2003, 11:27 PM
How's it been overall?
(I haven't had the time to play today)

12-06-2003, 11:39 PM
Bizory Farm=Way too many static objects.

LS[39Fj]|Robbo
12-07-2003, 08:36 AM
I loved the Maps. Bizory Farm and Maginot Line are brilliant. The only complaint I have is that the game didnt seem to be registering hits. I unloaded 2 full clips from my thompson into some axis guys and all this blood was coming from him but he didnt die. He was shooting me too but in the end we got blown up. I know other people were suffering from this too. I am not sure if it was lag related as i wasnt rubberbanding as much as i have before.

[Retired]Proton
12-07-2003, 10:29 AM
M|2Lt.Robbo]I loved the Maps. Bizory Farm and Maginot Line are brilliant. The only complaint I have is that the game didnt seem to be registering hits. I unloaded 2 full clips from my thompson into some axis guys and all this blood was coming from him but he didnt die. He was shooting me too but in the end we got blown up. I know other people were suffering from this too. I am not sure if it was lag related as i wasnt rubberbanding as much as i have before.

yep I had that with TheNewGuy on Bizory farm .. whole clip of my PPSH and pistol and he didnt go down .. then he shot me once with his rifle :roll:

All in all though it was great fun .. Bizory was a bit laggy though along with the others .. got better as player numbers dropped :)

Avrojet
12-07-2003, 11:14 AM
T|2Lt.Proton]
M|2Lt.Robbo]I loved the Maps. Bizory Farm and Maginot Line are brilliant. The only complaint I have is that the game didnt seem to be registering hits. I unloaded 2 full clips from my thompson into some axis guys and all this blood was coming from him but he didnt die. He was shooting me too but in the end we got blown up. I know other people were suffering from this too. I am not sure if it was lag related as i wasnt rubberbanding as much as i have before.

yep I had that with TheNewGuy on Bizory farm .. whole clip of my PPSH and pistol and he didnt go down .. then he shot me once with his rifle :roll:

All in all though it was great fun .. Bizory was a bit laggy though along with the others .. got better as player numbers dropped :)

Was this the first time we played bizory farm or later on?

If it was the first time it could be explained because we had set the client choke limit to 128 kbits and it seemed to register hits better with 256 kbits later on.

LS[39Fj]|Robbo
12-07-2003, 11:35 AM
It was the same even after the server was reset for me.

12-07-2003, 12:04 PM
The scrim rocked apart from the lag from my system... Hiroyoshi makes a good point most of you guys complain a ton about the lag when ur running it settings on high and all that. Apart from that awesome i play bizoryfarm on low settings it was crazy things were floating and stuff i got knifed like 3 times, good fun. We really need to tone it down a little but thats why we are having scrims! GOOD GAME ALL! :score:

12-07-2003, 01:16 PM
T|2Lt.Proton]yep I had that with TheNewGuy on Bizory farm .. whole clip of my PPSH and pistol and he didnt go down .. then he shot me once with his rifle :roll:

I died right after that from my fit of laughing :lol:


Valinsk was the least laggy for me, Bizory being next. Magnoit line was the worst for me :/

SNIPEHUNTER
12-07-2003, 02:14 PM
ya i had same problem,i emptied clips into you guys blood spurtin every where and no one dying? and getting killed with one shot :shock: ..so i switched to engineer,,was little better :lol:

Koolkal[OldSkool]
12-07-2003, 03:02 PM
The blood is complete and utter ****e. It's all based on clientside, meaning if you aim where the guy is on your screen... Only problem is that the game has server side hit detection meaning you have to aim in front of the direction they are moving in, making the blood useless. And on the round when it was like 11 Axis vs 28 Allies or so, we didn't get like any rubberbanding, which is why I was doing good with just my G43. :wink:

58F_Lc Ordos!
12-07-2003, 03:06 PM
okay people.... i won't explain all the stuff about rubberbanding and lag..euhm miyoshi i mean.. again. I did experience lag here and there in terms of hits nor registering, impacting behind some guy, and rubberbanding (3 steps forward, one back. Turnning and then resetting)

Anyway i wouldn't say a word if i get a framerate drop like when we are engaged in a naval fight. if i stutter there its pure FPS drop. But that is A LOT different from what i experienced yesterday.

now away with all that negativity. Despite the problems (hey thats why we are testing) i had a kickass time :) untill my headache succumbed me and i couldn't do anything anymore

Ordos

Koolkal[OldSkool]
12-07-2003, 03:13 PM
Ya, it was very fun still! :shock: I loved Weserubung while in my destroyer, picking off infantry at the East Flag who thought they could hide.. When there's a ship 50 yards away pounding you, you don't hide. You run and pray. :wink:

And on the later rounds of Bizory, it was awesome with no rubberbanding because Axis only filled up about a 3rd of our side. The rifles were good again, and there was some nice infantry fights.